The Graf Zeppelin-class aircraft carriers were four German Kriegsmarine aircraft carriers planned in the mid-1930s by Grand Admiral Erich Raeder as part of the Plan Z rearmament program after Germany and Great Britain signed the Anglo-German Naval Agreement. Despite its size, the Germans did not expect Graf Zeppelin to carry a very large air group. The Graf Zeppelin-class aircraft carriers were four German Kriegsmarine aircraft carriers planned in the mid-1930s by Grand Admiral Erich Raeder as part of the Plan Z rearmament program after Germany and Great Britain signed the Anglo-German Naval Agreement. Seller: Book Depository. The commanding officer was Kapitan z. The Graf Zeppelinclass aircraft carriers were four German Kriegsmarine aircraft carriers planned in the mid1930s by Grand Admiral Erich Raeder as part of the Plan Z rearmament program after Germany and Great Britain signed the AngloGerman Naval Agreement. First Sea Lord Admiral Sir Dudley Pound stopped tapping his pencil on the oaken desk and slowly leaned backward in the oversized leather chair. Further, the Kriegsmarine had stationed more than a dozen German support vessels ready to. The American Essex class, almost identical in size to Graf Zeppelin, operated 91. This is one of the most frequently asked questions among the public: What if Bismarck had sailed with the Tirpitz and the Graf Zeppelin? The answer is simple, if Bismarck and Tirpitz together already offer more than a threat to the Royal Navy, the addition of the aircraft. one of the most interesting newly-built German Horizontal protection (armor deck): Horizontal 40 mm: warships. Essex Carrier modifications post WW2. Share. 1 to mark the introduction of British aircraft carriers. It superseded the Imperial German Navy of the German Empire (1871–1918) and the inter-war Reichsmarine (1919–1935) of the Weimar Republic. The battleship Bismarck was one of the gems of the Kriegsmarine, bristling with fearsome weaponry. Graf Zeppelin had a design speed of thirty-five knots, which would have made it the fastest carrier ever built (although it’s not at all clear that the final ship could have made that speed). Select the department you want to search in. ago. Exercise Rhine, a subject that has been covered probably too much, however, something I’m not familiar with in the realm of “what-if”, replace Bismarck with the carrier Graf Zeppelin. 92mm MG-17 machine guns with 2000 rounds and two wing mounted 7. The more I play with GZ and the more I read her critics the clearer the picture is coming as to why this launch was such a rushed nightmare. 22, 2017. Historical what if discussions, hypothetical operations, battleship vs. During World War II, aviation became one of the decisive factors in battles at sea. Most people are unaware that during WWII, Nazi Germany had an operational aircraft carrier, the Graf Zeppelin. Battleship Bismarck exited the Kiel Canal and entered Dock C. Graf Zeppelin had a design speed of 35 knots, which would have made her the fastest carrier ever built, although it’s not at all clear that the final ship could have made that. Aircraft Carriers > Was the GRAF ZEPPELIN aircraft carriers a bad design. This was the only aircraft of Germany during World War II that was close to being completed. The Kriegsmarine had plans for six carriers: Flugzeugtrager ''A'' - later named as Graf Zeppelin; Flugzeugtrager ''B'' - not formally named, some have suggested Peter Strasser as the intended name; Four cruise liners, including Europa and Gneisenau (not to be confused with Scharnhorsts's twin) were planned to be converted to carriers. Graf Zeppelin would have been irrelevant. It would also have carried a substantial antiaircraft armament for the period, which it would have needed given the lack of escorts in any plausible. The sinking of the. However, Tirpitz was undergoing sea trials and was. The crash knocked four torpedoes on to the hangar deck, parted the elevator cables, and damaged. Dec. The ship was equipped with eight 15-inch guns. The new owners had hoped to repair and refit the ship as a new carrier but this proved to be impractical so the Graf Zeppelin had one more task to fulfill. Paul L wrote:. As the war was increasingly turning against Japan on the 16th of February, Vice-Admiral Kimpei. Almost certainly. Battleship BismarckHMS Hood (pennant number 51) was a battlecruiser of the Royal Navy (RN). İn my opinion battle for the atlantic would be waaay harder for the allies if germany had 3 operational aircraft carriers in the ealy years of the War. The design was finalised by Hitler’s Navy after they rose from the. Laid down: 28 December 1936. Plus if the Graf Zeppelin could be modified to take a ski jump or widened with a second carrier in a catamaran layout. Air ops wise she would probably have been a bit better than a CVE maybe as good as a CVL. if it had been, and it probably could have been by May 1941, what if Graf Zeppelin had sailed out with Prinz Eugen on that fateful day instead of a battleship? Better yet, what if Graf Zeppelin sailed WITH Bismarck and Prinz Eugen? Not in place of. Graf Zeppelin was more a contemporary of the Ark Royal, which preceeded the Illustrious. 11 posts • Page 1 of 1. From a shipyard crane in the Vulkan Shipyard in Stettin, Klihler was able to observe the fulfillment of the order; thick clouds of smoke came from the funnel of the GRAF ZEPPELIN-a sign that the charges had ignited. After the Bismarck was sunk Hitler basicly locked up his own navy. In 1934, an political event happened, and causes the Naval officers of the Reichsmarine (before Kriegsmarine) to. We are seriously looking into the submarines, as they are in popular demand. All of these were new records, and the lack of any major mishap would prove beyond a shadow of a doubt the safety and reliability of Eckener’s airship. Raeder had seen what British aircraft carriers had done to Bismarck and Tirpitz and the devastation Japanese carriers wrought on Pearl Harbor. The crew of the battleship Bismarck could be proud of themselves and their great ship. The hunt for Germany's largest warship proved that U-boats were the Nazis' best weapon. Graf Zeppelin had a design speed of thirty-five knots, which would have made it the fastest carrier ever built (although it’s not at all clear that the final ship could have made that. 14. As an individual raider, Graf Zeppelin would have had some advantages over battleships such as Bismarck and Scharnhorst. Graf Zeppelin had a design speed of 35 knots, which would have made her the fastest carrier ever built, although it’s not at all clear that the final ship could have made that. The bombers would've been Ju-87C Stuka. Her four-shaft geared turbines would have given her a maximum speed of 33 knots. So the answer is “fuck all. They were planned after a thorough study of Japanese carrier designs; nevertheless, German. US Navy. Jump to page:The myth of the German 1940’s Battleship Bismarck has been romanticized by both historians and entertainers in the past century. Such support operations could have changed the outcome of sea battles like the sinking of the Battleships Bismarck and Tirpitz had the Graf Zeppelin been present. Work on. On May 6, 1936, LZ-129 began the service it was built for; regular transatlantic crossings between Germany and the United States, carrying up to 50 passengers with both comfort and speed. GameStop Moderna Pfizer Johnson & Johnson AstraZeneca Walgreens Best Buy Novavax SpaceX Tesla. If Germany had constructed the Graf Zeppelin , she would be the largest aircraft carrier in the world. another szenario. I take comfort in knowing that'll kill their economy faster than it'll kill me. Most served in the Pacific, and by the end of 1942 the Japanese navy had sunk four of those. Else, the Japanese should have made a deal to purchase the vessel sans weaponry for use as a carrier, and if not feasible then as a fast transport for. Bismarck and Prinz Eugen responded within a few minutes. The German aircraft carrier Graf Zeppelin, planned as a centerpiece of Nazi propaganda, was never finished, and sat in harbor for the entire war. Over the course of her career, Bismarck had to face four battleships, four cruisers, two carriers and eight destroyers (not counting the ships that were en route to engage her). Hugo Eckener officially named the LZ-130 Graf Zeppelin as drapes were pulled back to reveal the large red letters. Share with: Link: Copy link. In addition, designs for battleships, armaments, and propulsion were developed. However, their air. The German battleship Bismarck after its completion but before it received its camouflage paint. The two Casablanca. On August 16, 1947 she was towed out to sea and used for target practice by Soviet ships and aircraft. Had the Graf Zeppelin sortied with Bismarck, Tirpitz, and Prinz Eugen into the Atlantic in 1939, the. 29, 1929, establishing a speed record of 21 days, 7 hours and 34 minutes. Jan 8, 2014. The carrier, already resting on the bottom, had been 32The Graf Zeppelin-class aircraft carriers were four German Kriegsmarine aircraft carriers planned in the mid-1930s by Grand Admiral Erich Raeder as part of the Plan Z rearmament program after Germany and Great Britain signed the Anglo-German Naval Agreement. Sure it could tool around with Bismark and the Prinz but doing that for too long would give even the So-so british Subs a really good chance at a kill. So they did not give Adolf Hitler advance notice of Bismarck ’s deployment in case he banned them from doing so. Graf Zeppelin vs HMS Ark Royal and Victorious. . FdG would have lost a 1v1 to a North Carolina or a South Dakota. the nerve to engage and sink the aircraft carrier Glorious and her two escorting destroyers. The sinking of the Bismarck was the most dramatic naval engagement in European waters. It. Hello, sign in. Aboard the Bismarck, besides the admiral and his staff of 75, was a crew of about 2,200 officers and men and a special prize crew of about 80 men. Although it was a decisive action between capital ships, it has no. Would had ended up on the bottom of the Atlantic like the Bismarck. i put two ships on the british side because the airplanes of the graf zeppelin were superior (Bf 109 vs Swordfishes) kk. Work on. She was launched on 17 April 1944 by Kaiser Co. These two are the best ships. Search Amazon. Had it been completed, the Graf Zeppelin could have thrown a wrench into Allied naval warfighting plans. View graf-zeppelin. After one name change and constructing a huge navy in secret, the Red Star Empire begins it's global. 09. Eventually, six “H” class battleships would have formed the core of the German battlefleet. Re: Graf Zeppelin found ! Post by Olaf » Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:08 am. Unlike American or Japanese carriers of the period, it would have had an armored flight deck. The group included Hitler. Projected recognition drawing of Graf Zeppelin had she been completed in September 1942. Though its service was brief, it had a lasting impact on the war. Graf Zeppelin was to be the Kriegsmarine's first carrier, but with the start of WW2 the works on the already launched ship stopped. Graf Zeppelin had a design speed of thirty-five knots, which would have made it the fastest carrier ever built (although it’s not at all clear that the final ship could have made that speed). Top. Here's What You Need to Remember: Germany and Italy did in fact dabble with aircraft carriers. Graf Zeppelin was scuttled in 1945, raised by the Soviets, and sunk as a target in 1947. 18. 52 posts 1 2 3 4 Next Kyler Senior Member Posts:385 Joined:Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:49 am Location:Evansville, IN U. The Graf Zeppelin was an aircraft carrier of the Kriegsmarine, named after Count Ferdinand von Zeppelin. 5 inches. 92mm MG-17 machine guns with 1000 rounds and an external fuel tank. Mainz has sheer DPM. Graf Zeppelin had a design speed of thirty-five knots, which would have made it the fastest carrier ever built (although it’s not at all clear that the final ship could have made that speed). S. (An American newsreel documented the event, through the rollout and liftoff into the mist. The Graf Zeppelin represented part of the Kriegsmarine's attempt to create a well-balanced oceangoing fleet, capable of projecting German naval power far beyond the narrow confines of the Baltic and North Seas. It consisted of 23 Bogue-class ships, specifically designed as Seattle Tacoma-designed escort aircraft carriers. Graf Zeppelin had a design speed of thirty-five knots, which would have made it the fastest carrier ever built (although it’s not at all clear that the final ship could have made that speed). The USS Bismarck Sea Was the Last Commissioned US Aircraft Carrier Sunk by an Enemy. Else, the Japanese should have made a deal to purchase the vessel sans weaponry for use as a carrier, and if not feasible then as a fast transport for the IJA. Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:22 am. Building an aircraft carrier from scratch was not an easy endeavor. Summary: We all know that only two Bismarck class ships were made, Bismarck herself, and Tirpitz. Commissioned: 03. This is correct—but irrelevant. ”. After a couple months worth of training as a four-carrier task force in home waters, the entire force of 4 Graf Zeppelins were ordered sortie to Operation Rheinuburg, escorted. Battleship Bismarck Forums; ↳ Bismarck General Discussion; ↳ Bismarck Crewmember Research;Unlike American or Japanese carriers of the period, it would have had an armored flight deck. Graf Zeppelin was scuttled in 1945, raised by the Soviets, and sunk as a target in 1947. I suspect that we can count on a German CV, the Zeppelin was 90% ready. aircraft carriers of all types lost during World War II, seven were escort carriers, six of which were of the Kaiser-built Casablanca class. He had a tough decision to make about arctic convoy “PQ 17”. ---23,000-ton Graf Zeppelin carrier---42,000-ton Bismarck battleship---15,000-ton Prinz Eugen heavy cruiser The Carrier battle group might have sunk the KG V, Prince of Wales, Hood, Victorious, 4. If she had completed on time, perhaps she could have sortied with Bismarck and Prinz Eugen and fended off the crucial air attack that crippled the Bismarck and led to her. The Graf Zeppelin's greatest utility if could have been completed much earlier would have been escorting the Bismarck, providing aircover, extended patrol range and increased striking power. 5 inches. That armor alone, even discounting the supporting structure, weighed close to 30,000 tons. 109T/87T had capability to operate from carrier. Starting with the ship, 52,600 hit points with heavy cruiser like armor. Destroyer Yukikaze engaged with USS Cushing and USS Laffey during the First Naval Battle of Guadalcanal, and then escorted the crippled battleship Hiei. View of a large explosion on board the U. This was just before the arrival of the Red Army in the Stettin area. It was launched on December 8. ca. The 33,000-ton vessel, originally designated simply as Flugzeugträger A, was laid down in December. All About WWI – WW II All History about WWI to WW II. Europa was one of several vessels selected for conversion into auxiliary. The German aircraft carrier I was a planned conversion of the transport ship Europa during World War II. The commanding officer was Kapitan z. Only three of her 1,418 officers and men survived. Most other navies started. If the German navy places a higher Graf Zeppelin and Prinz Eugen, no Bismarck - Page 5 - NavWeaps ForumsCount Zeppelin had built his first rigid airship in 1900 with the thought that it would serve the Fatherland as an ideal long- range air scout, but it was twelve years before the German Navy showed any interest in his invention. The ship had good armor protection for her type, carried quite numerous air group and. The book is a historical fiction. navigation search. An eleventh convoy with 20,000 troops for Egypt was ready to sail the next day, with the aircraft carrier Victorious and battle cruiser Repulse as escorts. Hitler was profoundly uninterested in the surface navy except as a source of national prestige. Had Tirpitz been in the Atlantic, it could have ended badly. With this the carrier was obselete. The Z-Plan included provisions to build a small number of aircraft carriers. At 0306, just after the last aircraft had landed aboard Victorious, and following a brilliant maneuver by Lütjens, the two shadowing cruisers, HMS Norfolk and HMS Suffolk lost contact with Bismarck. Graf Zeppelin. sailing without escort. 52 posts 1 2 3 4 Next Kyler Senior Member Posts:385 Joined:Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:49 am Location:Evansville, IN U. German naval. We’ve credited the improved carrier with 60 planes, still less than her. Posts: 5. pdf), Text File (. Projected recognition drawing of Graf Zeppelin had she been completed in September 1942. Bismarck was the first of two Bismarck-class battleships built for the German Kriegsmarine during World War II. It. The Germans could have been more threatening to the Royal Navy during the war had they not build the heavy battleships of the Bismarck, Tirpitz, Scharnhorst, and the Gneisenau. The Kriegsmarine had been following Plan Z with the outbreak of war predicted as 1945 not 1939 and at least 2 aircraft carriers were considered but only one the Graf Zeppelin was built and this was heavily damaged by an RAF air attack and not completed, 2 battleships and 2 battle-cruisers were also due to be constructed after the Tirpitz but. Mediterranean.